The Last Jedi (with spoilers)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by HittingSmoke, Dec 15, 2017.

The Last Jedi (with spoilers)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by HittingSmoke, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. HittingSmoke

    HittingSmoke AoA Emeritus

    That was... not a good movie. Holy shit. Maybe the last half hour is action-packed and fun, but to get there you have to sit through two hours of cringe-inducing one-liners and spastic editing trying way too hard to look like the original trilogy but completely failing.

    I felt like I was going crazy in the theater while everyone around me laughed and cheered. I was trying to convince myself I liked it but by the time the story got to the real interesting bits at the end I already felt like I'd checked out. I'd rather have been across the street having a beer and watching Thursday night football.

    The only good part of the actual story outside of the action was the relationship between Rey and Kylo. It was interesting.

    They did zero development of Snoke after the huge buildup from TFA. None. He's shown, the movie assumes we know him, he says some shit sinister-like, then he's dead. Moving on. End of Snoke story.

    Luke was handled really poorly. His brooding didn't serve well as build up to his actual fight, which totally wasn't an actual fight.

    I could probably write for pages about how this movie was a disappointment. I'm just annoyed. Instead I'm going to go watch Rogue One.
    AndyCapp, stat, Rhyus and 1 other person like this.
  2. Austok

    Austok Division Leader

    I agree, I wanted more development of Snoke, who was he, how the hell did he get so much power, what was his connection to Vader? I did like the way they killed him off though.

    I think they tried way to hard with the one liners to make it funny, some were good, some just hurt.

    The relationship with Kylo and Rey was one really good aspect of the story

    Luke...well...was disappointing for most for the movie, although near the end he was better

    I didn't dislike the movie, but I didn't like it nearly as much as I thought I would. I will have to watch it again to see if I appreciate more on a second viewing
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  3. HittingSmoke

    HittingSmoke AoA Emeritus

    I generally don't like to outright say I loved or hated a movie until I've seen it twice. The problem is TLJ was exhausting to get through. Maybe it's because I went to a late showing, but I really don't want to sit through all of that again. Maybe it could be a great movie with a fan edit down to around 100 minutes.

    The fact that I don't want to watch it again just to get a better gauge of it says a lot to me.
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  4. syberghost

    syberghost Guild Admin Staff Member

    Someone on Twitter (a generally awful person who is sometimes funny) posted this:

  5. Austok

    Austok Division Leader

    hmm not sure it is worse then the holiday special...

    also Revenge of the Sith in #1 and Attack of the Clones in #4...what drugs was he smoking

    And, if he includes the holiday special he should probably include Rogue One...but not the ewok movies
  6. stat

    stat Division Leader

    Insert Ebert-style thumbs down. I'll rant about it tomorrow, maybe. But HittingSmoke listed most of my complaints about it.
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  7. HittingSmoke

    HittingSmoke AoA Emeritus

    Every time the movie comes up I'm reminded of something else that bugged me. So many fucking things I need to start compiling a list. Yesterday's list of topics:

    1. If jumping the cruiser to lightspeed would take out a Dreadnaught fleet, and Vice Admiral Soccer Mom was going to go down with the ship anyway, why didn't she turn around and do that shit out of the gate before half of the fucking shuttles had been blown up getting hundreds killed?
    2. If jumping the cruiser to lightspeed would take out a Dreadnaught fleet, and Vice Admiral Soccer Mom and the other captains were going to go down with the ships anyway, why didn't the other two ships do it instead of just running dry on fuel and getting blown up? Then the could have just hung out in that big cruiser and done a single jump to place where they could refuel with only two captains being sacrificed.
    3. If jumping the cruiser to lightspeed would take out a Dreadnaught fleet, why the fuck is anyone building ships at all when you can just strap an engine to a hull (or a rock, maybe? Those are cheap) and remotely jump it into every opposing fleet for a fraction of the price with minimal loss of life?
    They created one of the most visually spectacular things I've ever seen on a screen and the whole fucking scene was ruined because I was too busy thinking about all the things I'd like to interject.

    DJ awakes in his cell knowing Finn and Tico's plan in its entirety. It's implied that it's because he overheard it, but he knew shit they didn't talk about. There are a lot of little things like this that make me think most of the problems with this movie were in editing. Someone who knew the whole story was cutting shit out that we needed to see to make sense of anything.

    Finn and Tico's plan was so fucking out of nowhere and nonsensical that I could not suspend disbelief for a fraction of a fucking second with any amount of mental gymnastics, and I'm pretty forgiving about that kind of shit in movies. So General Leia and Vice Admiral Soccer Mom, along with all of the other captains and officers, were completely baffled about how the First Order ships were tracking them through LS. Yet on a whim in a the span of a couple minutes Finn and the hall monitor figure it out in specific detail down to where the fucking tracker is on the FO ship and how to shut it down. And what is that tracker? Stereotypical laser-triangle sci-fi looking thingy. And somehow they only have six minutes to get back to the ship yet thought that would be in any way possible in any stretch of reality.

    The Finn and Tico relationship was the most forced and undeveloped part of the whole movie. It literally consists of just the kiss at the end and it's never so much as implied before or after that. It could have been cut and left her as just being naively heroic instead of a swooning girl with wet panties.

    A fucking podracing scene but it's not podracing because they're on monkey horses?

    I also didn't notice this while watching it because I was so busy actively trying to convince myself that I wasn't watching a train wreck worse than the prequels, but the relative time of the scenes was all fucked up. There's really no way at all to resolve the amount of time Rey spent on Jedi guinea pig island between leaving the Rebels and confronting Kylo on the FO ships.

    What the fuck was going on with the dark side shit under the island? We had this awesome buildup of something dark being hidden under the island and it reaching out to Rey. We finally get down there and what is it? Sith infinity mirror? Wat?
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  8. stat

    stat Division Leader

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  9. syberghost

    syberghost Guild Admin Staff Member

    So I feel like I'm in Bizarro World listening to you guys talk about Bizarro Star Wars, a movie different from the one I watched.

    Was it perfect? No, but the plot holes weren't anywhere near as bad as you're making out, and pretty common for action movies, which this definitely was.

    The major points all worked. The turning of previous conventions on their head, such as the multiple attempts at defeating the superweapons by exploiting engineering flaws failing every time and the superweapon doing its job perfectly well, were welcome. The humor was (mostly) well-placed to bump dramatic tension down so it could be ramped back up without audience fatigue. The twists were easy to follow, the subplots all came together nicely, and I found Luke Skywalkers end to be satisfying. The visuals were stupendous, although I do think (and I'm probably in the minority on this) that CGI would have been better for Yoda than puppetry, although using the puppetry was definitely a nod to the folks who (rightly) think CGI was overused in the prequels.

    I think this was a great action movie and a great Star Wars movie, and the ways it strayed from Empire Strikes Back while still including some of its major story beats made for a great middle story since although it resolved a bunch of plot threads, it opened up some new ones that leave a couple of great confrontations available for Episode IX.

    I really liked this movie. I am going to enjoy seeing it again.
  10. Fell

    Fell Guild Admin Staff Member

    I took my woman to her first ever Star Wars movie (she didn't grow up here or anyplace with a huge movie audience) and after raving about SW's cultural history (much like any rabid fan), i was cowed into media selection submission and have been reflexively saying "which episode of 90 day fiance do you want to watch dear" ever since we saw TLJ. It just felt...disorganized...less filling... weak... compared to all the others. I WILL watch it again, i'm that big a fan. and i'm sure it will grow on me some - it definitely had a few moments worth seeing again including the throne room fight. i just have to say my first impression of the movie, overall, was awful and i found it hard to appreciate. My poor woman about dozed off on my shoulder (but for the loud THX sound she might have).
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
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  11. HittingSmoke

    HittingSmoke AoA Emeritus

    I was hoping it would grow on me over time. It hasn't. I'm usually the forgiving guy. I think the worst of the Marvel movies are still fun and worth a watch. I've defended Batman vs Superman. I think the new Star Treks are okay. I usually tell people to lighten the fuck up over small continuity errors or divergence from comics and books.

    I can't like this movie with effort. There's too much missing and too much that I didn't need. If you're going to make a two and a half hour long movie it better need to be two and a half hours long.

    I watched Rogue One again yesterday to reinforce my love of it and it made me think that maybe we don't need a prime Star Wars line of "episodes" anymore. With Rogue One we have a template for a great Star Wars story and that was done with extremely strict plot requirements to get to Ep 4. We've got the Han Solo and Obi Wan movies in the works that won't be "Star Wars Ep *" with almost no stringent pre-existing plot conditions since Disney has already shown complete content with retconning the EU. Han and Luke are dead. They're not going to CGI Leia into a whole feature-length film (please no) and they really should have rewritten an ending for Leia into this. The original characters are gone. We can now either tell untold stories about old characters with new actors or move forward. Despite the opening scrawl saying the Leia was assisted by the REPUBLIC, there's no evidence of anything resembling the Republic existing and the resistance was decimated down into low triple digits. Nobody answered their call for help. As far as I'm concerned this movie established that the resistance is dead.

    Maybe Kylo Ren was right. It's time to burn the past and start from scratch. The Kylo/Rey story arc gets a new series that focuses solely on Rey and Kylo discovering their paths as force users with nobody to guide them. The republic is gone. The First Order is inconsequential as the galactic dictatorship other than being led by Kylo Ren. It's not called Episode 9 and it has little connection to these characters that Rey barely knew. No more talk of Rey becoming a Jedi. She learns about all of the other force-using factions that have existed and we see her develop her own path. Don't need Chewy. Don't need the Falcon. Don't even need Finn since he didn't do shit in this movie.
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  12. Fell

    Fell Guild Admin Staff Member

    don’t need the Falcon?! Are you insane?! Yes it played a small part in TLJ but damn that ship is an icon that deserves to continue on. Not it’s fault Johnson didn’t know what to do with it!
  13. HittingSmoke

    HittingSmoke AoA Emeritus

    I'm perfectly fine retiring icons from the old to build something new at this point. The ship was a YT-1300. We can see more of them. Every Enterprise was an iconic sharship. Eventually we had to move on from several.
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  14. HittingSmoke

    HittingSmoke AoA Emeritus

    [​IMG]
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  15. stat

    stat Division Leader

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  16. Rhyus

    Rhyus Veteran Member

    I've heard that there is a petition up on Change.org that the fans want to have this movie removed from history, thrown away and redone. They are very upset that this movie even exists and they want Disney to do what they did with all the non-movie content for Star Wars, erase it from the Star Wars history. There was like 23,000 signatures already when I heard about it.
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  17. syberghost

    syberghost Guild Admin Staff Member

    There's a petition to keep it in the canon too. The way you cast your vote is by spending a dollar on a ticket. It's received 450 million votes so far.

    I'm sure Disney's gonna get right on that Change.org one.
  18. HittingSmoke

    HittingSmoke AoA Emeritus

    There's a supercut out there of Mark Hamill subtly shitting on this movie in interviews going back quite a bit. He never seemed particularly thrilled with it.
  19. stat

    stat Division Leader

    I'd heard rumblings of him shitting on the movie and his role in it for a while, guess I have never found any of them.
  20. AndyCapp

    AndyCapp Veteran Member

    They won't see my money. Maybe, just maybe I will torrent the movie down the road when a decent blu-ray rip comes out. But then again, perhaps I will just skip it completely. I would rather imagine what the movie could have been, in my mind, I have a great imagination :)
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